the f word

[voiddj]

^ Sorry Tom, that was shitty of me. What i wanna say is yeah, sure, for instance i like having long swishy hair and painted nails and turning up to my Neuroscience lectures dressed really femme on most days, which you could consider me playing up to gender stereotypes.

When I refer to gender stereotypes I was thinking of the roles and responsibilities that we take in life. It doesn't make it right for those that do want to go against the norm to be adversely affected though hence my statement that equality has to work for everyone.

Hope that makes sense as it does in my head.

[poorandweird]

ahh i see. and i agree with you on that one

[CamilleDevine]

You bring up a valid criticism of feminism, where there's been definite instances of not acknowledging POC and trans* experiences, as well as ableism.

This is one reason why feminism in general doesn't sit right with me. Having one... what's the word? Branch of philosophy? Movement? Set of ideals? For all females, doesn't make sense for me.

My experience as a female is probably different to that of a female in Iran. It's different to that of a female working in the mines, it's different to that of a female who is quadriplegic, a female who is an immigrant, etc. "Females" are just about half the world, and feminism gives me the impression that we should all feel an affinity for each other; that we all face similar issues, that we're all discriminated against in the same way. And I just can't agree with that.

I'm all for calling out sexism when it appears, and doing something to try and counter it. The way women as a whole are treated in some countries is definitely disgusting. But, particularly in this country, I also see a fair bit of sexism toward men (the notion that there'll all potential rapists/wife-beaters/paedophiles, the way many are falsely accused of sexual violence, the unfair treatment of fathers and husbands in the family court system). I'm against all of that, but I don't call myself a "masculinist". Which I guess explains why I can't rightly call myself a "feminist" either. I don't think either sex (and this ignores many aspects of trans and intersex issues, on which I don't have the knowledge to speak, so I apologise) is automatically at a disadvantage all the time.

[kitty kibuty]

that's fair, but i'd also say that feminism in its current incarnation tries to be inclusive and acknowledges a variety of issues, situations, and challenges. feminism more than any other movement seems to be ever evolving and making efforts to grow and is very reflexive to encompass many different points of view that may have been previously left out. many aspects of feminism seem to be branching out to reach people of color and people of size and different cultures and bodies of all ability, size, and gender. the lgbt community is very well represented. although people of different backgrounds may face many different struggles, the main message seems to be that of support and understanding. one thing that's very important is acknowledging privilege, be it masculine or white or able bodied or what have you. it's about acknowledging the privilege you see or receive no matter how uncomfortable that process might be and working through it to reach a better and more productive place in your own life and in the world. there are many flaws, but to be a part of a culture that is willing to be called out on the flaws and progress is a very important thing.

[LilyBathory]

well, I mostly agree with camilledevine.

other than that, in my personal experience, I've not only never had disadvantages because of my being female, I've had advantages. I became vice manager because I a) was the most qualified and b) the boss preferred a woman. the tv-station where I work had to fill their quota. the newspaper editors in general prefer young woman, even better if they come from an immigration background. and I think that's hardly fair. political correctness has turned this around, and now I get jobs because they don't wanna offend feminists.

another thing I dislike is seeing women being belittled because they choose to get married, have kids and be a housewife, like kitty kibuty mentioned. if it's their fucking choice, let them. I also like to have dinner on the table when my man gets home from work, and so do many of my female friends, and I do not feel oppressed because of that.

I think where I live, things like that get out of hand fairly quickly. it's the same with immigrants. the only thing that works really well, in my opinion, is equality for the lgbt community in this city. it's just not a big deal. no rallies, no discrimination. I feel like nobody even cares if their co-worker is gay, and if that co-worker is not promoted in favour of someone else, they won't go "oh it's because I'm gay! bigot!" they just go, huh, maybe next time.

[opiiate]

Not meaning to attack anyone, and please do not interpret this as such:

however, I always get a giggle out of when people say "feminists attack people on the basis of their life choices" in conjunction with mentions of 'traditional' female gender roles. I have never seen a feminist do that in my life. I attack folk when they're being a racist POS, transphobic, queerphobic blah blah blah the list goes on, but I have never(nor have any of my friends, or professors for that matter) said 'oh that woman is ____ because she likes babies (insert makeup, homemaking, homeschooling her kids etc).

If anything, a lot of contemporary feminism is advocating/consciousness raising for women who have children or are in some kind of domestic context, period. I see the above argument SO much from people who have gut reactions to feminism as a whole, it's really rather interesting.

Also, please do not interpret the above commentary as a call for a list of ones experiences with idiotic people who also happen to identify as feminists. Cheapens both arguments.

[Chula]

I have never been attacked by someone who referred to themselves as a feminist for my choices either but I have had other people telll me i couldn't be a feminist because i wear makeup or because i stay at home with my kids.

[kitty kibuty]

i'm not saying these people were educated, intelligent folks with well thought out political standpoints. these were girls who read a book, slapped a label on themselves, and thought they knew it all. they weren't an ideal representation of feminism, BUT if this is someone's first or most of their exposure to people claiming to be feminists it can leave a bad taste in your mouth.

[namelesswonder]

^Agreed on the first impression. Unfortunately that impression is pretty widespread in my experience so relating to feminism automatically puts you in that boat. I agree with Camille on this. I choose not to identify as a feminist because I think it's possible to fight for everything that feminism fights for without picking a label and potentially alienating yourself.

[LilyBathory]

Not meaning to attack anyone, and please do not interpret this as such:

however, I always get a giggle out of when people say "feminists attack people on the basis of their life choices" in conjunction with mentions of 'traditional' female gender roles. I have never seen a feminist do that in my life. I attack folk when they're being a racist POS, transphobic, queerphobic blah blah blah the list goes on, but I have never(nor have any of my friends, or professors for that matter) said 'oh that woman is ____ because she likes babies (insert makeup, homemaking, homeschooling her kids etc).

If anything, a lot of contemporary feminism is advocating/consciousness raising for women who have children or are in some kind of domestic context, period. I see the above argument SO much from people who have gut reactions to feminism as a whole, it's really rather interesting.

Also, please do not interpret the above commentary as a call for a list of ones experiences with idiotic people who also happen to identify as feminists. Cheapens both arguments.

well, I have seen it. I'm aware that as per usual, there are a few that give the lot a bad name. it still contributes to me not wanting that same name. in fairness though, I have noticed a drastic change in this. when I was still in school and first came into contact with feminism 12 years ago, the belittling actually was fairly common. I do know that modern feminism does not exclude women based on their choices (or at least definitely advocates not doing so) and I am much more comfortable with post-feminism.


I also think my reaction has to do with my being called a feminist (actually, a derogatory german slang term for it) when I was younger all the time, and I thought it was ridiculous to call me that when I was just very opinionated about all kinds of discrimination. and all other kinds of shit, really.

[Chula]

i'm not saying these people were educated, intelligent folks with well thought out political standpoints. these were girls who read a book, slapped a label on themselves, and thought they knew it all. they weren't an ideal representation of feminism, BUT if this is someone's first or most of their exposure to people claiming to be feminists it can leave a bad taste in your mouth.

That makes sense.

[MooMooMonster]

It's a shame that there are those people who think that being a feminist means going to an extreme in their views. It seems like quite a few ladies' first tastes of what we think is feminism is with those people who leave a bitter taste to the whole movement and the word gets a tainted feel.

Even though I don't identify as a feminist, I don't see the term as a dirty word or having bad implications. One has to think about the movement as a whole, not just a few case morons who took extremist views.
Feminism unfortunately has that stereotype as androgynous women who want to bust down every gender stereotype and hate males. Likely because people form an opinion about a subject within seconds of their first experience and I'm betting that the more extreme of those who identify as feminist are more willing to blurt their opinion than someone who has a more balanced view. And we're more likely to pay attention to what we find absurd than reasonable because it catches us off guard and gets attention.

I base my arguments on individual issues within the whole movement because each feminist has their individual concerns.

[bacteriadance]

Oh.. I thought this was a thread about the movie... http://www.theotherfwordmovie.com/

[freakbychoice]

I identify as a feminist, as does my boyfriend. I do believe that the word is a little misleading, though. I think something along the lines of "equalist" would be more appropriate to my beliefs, as I truly think no one should be discriminated against, not just women. "Equalist" would be more encompassing.

[mollypop]

I identify as a radical feminist. I believe in intersectional equality and a world free of oppression based on gender, sex, sexuality, race, class, ability, etc.

Contemporary feminism differs from second wave feminism in that it does not berate women for embracing stereotypically feminine roles, but is instead celebrating women who make their own choices and supporting those who don't feel comfortable doing so. And many feminists are aiming to be more trans- inclusive. This is why I strongly identify with feminism; its contemporary presence in radical communities is an inclusive and empowering force.

Identifying with feminist beliefs does not mean that you only believe in equality for women, especially when feminism is such an intersectional issue. That's like saying because someone likes carrots, they don't care about all other vegetables.

also, to quote Ellen Page (thanks tumblr for this one): "the fact that feminism is a dirty word is proof that patriarchy exists."